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The E-Gobrecht Volume 2, Issue 12,
December 2006 Whole Number 21 The E-Gobrecht is an
award winning electronic publication of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club
(LSCC). The LSCC is a non-profit organization dedicated to the
attributions of the Liberty Seated Coin series. The LSCC provides the
information contained in this email newsletter from various sources free of
charge as a general service to the membership and others with this numismatic
interest. You do not have to be a LSCC member to benefit from this
newsletter; subscription to the E-Gobrecht
is available to anyone. All disclaimers are in effect as the
completeness and/or accuracy of the information contained herein cannot be completely verified. Contact information
is included near the end of this newsletter. Miscellaneous Notes from
the Editor Editor’s Announcements.
Happy Holidays! I hope this holiday
season allows you sufficient time to reflect on the joys of your life
including your numismatic interests. May you have a wonderful
2007. For some of you, this is the first newsletter you received
from me. Per my request, the LSCC Secretary/Treasurer shared
his club email listing with me to see who is not receiving this newsletter.
As a reminder, I do not share my email listing nor give out individual
email addresses without your permission. Acknowledgements. Many thanks to Jim Gray, Len Augsburger, and the subscribers who corresponded with me. Availability of past issues. Through the generosity of Gerry Fortin, the previous
issues of the E-Gobrecht are readily
accessible on his seated dime website at http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/LSCC.htm. Please consider submitting something for print. It need not
be elaborate; it can be something as simple as a short note on your favorite
variety, neat find, nice cherry pick, happenings at a coin show, rare Liberty
Seated coinage coming up for auction, etc. If you are interested in it,
rest assured, others will be too! Sharing information is a goal of this
newsletter. This is a continuing plea. Features in this issue ==> Question of Month. ==> Auction News by Jim
Gray. ==> Notes from the LSCC
Regional meeting at the Baltimore Coin Show, November 11th by Bill
Bugert. ==> ==> CCSL Seated Quarter
Registry Set Sold at Auction by Len Augsburger . ==> Review of the
latest issue of The Gobrecht Journal by Len Augsburger. ==> Market commentary
by Dick Osburn. ==> Half dollar clash
tool by Bill Bugert. ==> Recent subscriber
correspondence. Details ==> Question of the
month by Jim Gray. This forum hopes to increase collector interaction
and correspondence. Your participation is welcomed and
encouraged. Send your comments to the E-Gobrecht
Editor at wb8cpy@arrl.net. November’s Question Can a weakly struck Seated coin legitimately be graded
MS-65? Replies Denis Loring: Of course, it can, if by grading you mean the
original definition of the word: a measure of the deterioration a coin has
suffered after it has left the dies (my emphasis). If you mean
slab/market grading, doesn't that depend on the
market characteristics of the time? Bill Bugert: Before I answered this question, I thought it would
be worthwhile to check the exact definition of the MS-65 grade for
a Liberty Seated Half Dollar. According to the 6th
Edition of the Official ANA Grading Guide, it says “No trace of wear;
nearly as perfect as MS-67 except for some small blemishes.
Has full mint luster but mat be unevenly toned or lightly fingermarked.
A few noticeable nicks or marks may be present.” Furthermore,
on page 18 it says “Generally, marks in the die, clash marks, die
breaks, rust spots, and the like need not be described when grading
a coin unless such characteristics are extremely unusual for the variety…However,
if one were describing a later coin which normally comes from sharp
dies (a 1938-D half dollar, to cite one of hundreds of examples),
and if it were struck from worn or defective dies, it would be appropriate
to say, “1938-D half dollar struck from defective dies” and then describe
the defect.” Here’s the kicker, on page 21 the grading guide says, “A
coin which is MS-65 from a technical or numeric viewpoint but which
is lightly struck can be described as MS-64, MS-63, or some lower
grade, without mentioning the weakness; this is the practice of most
third-party grading services at present. A weakly struck
coin cannot be graded MS-65 or finer. To qualify as MS-65
a coin must have a fairly sharp strike (but not necessarily a completely
full strike).” (The emphasis is mine.). Therefore,
technically the answer to Jim’s question is NO, or maybe?! I broached this topic with Randy Wiley during one of our
study sessions. He made some very good points that I will summarize
here. He quickly pointed out a couple of examples that contradict
what the grading guide states (above). Firstly, Stack’s offered an uncertified Gem BU 1839 No Drapery half
dollar in the Jimmy Hayes sale in October 1985 (lot 57 with a photo).
This coin is weakly as are many of this small letter reverse design.
PCGS later certified this coin in 1990 as an MS-65! It doesn’t
end there; in the past year, this same coin was offered in a coin
World add for $350,000 (as the finest known!)…the
finest known is weakly struck! Secondly and a more recently, Stack’s offered an 1842 Small
Date half dollar in their November 2005 sale (lot 285 with a photo).
Described as BU and uncertified, this coin is the now famous 1842
small date, small letter half dollar of which two are currently known. This coin is
also weakly struck (small letter reverse design) and was certified
after the sale by PCGS as MS-65! Question of this
Month (December) If you owned a scare or rare Seated coin, which is
original, but with deep murky toning, would you dip it?
(Ed., send replies to the Editor at wb8cpy@arrl.net.
Thanks) ==> AUCTION
NEWS By
Jim Gray Stack's Norweb Sale featured
an 1844-O half dime in MS-62 with a good strike and nice toning that
did not sell. An 1846 half dime in XF-40 with attractive steel
gray toning, sold for $2,990, but an 1885-S dime in AU-53 with some
marks did not sell. An 1874-CC half dollar in AU
with lovely Wayte Raymond toning over an old
cleaning soared to $4,830. An 1855 Liberty Seated dollar in AU-53 with
a nice appearance sold for $5, 060. A very well struck 1856 dollar with
nice toning in AU-58 only realized $3,220 while an AU-50 of the same date,
but with a flat strike still managed $2,070. An 1871-CC dollar in VF-30 and a decent look went for
$7,015. An 1872-CC in F-12 with the "BE" missing sold for
$3,220. An 1873-CC in AU-55 with attractive natural toning over an old
cleaning still garnered $20,700. The Bowers & Merena Sale
featured an 1844-O half dime with UNC details that sold for $3,910.
Dimes that did not sell included a magnificent MS-65 1840-O no drapery
piece, a corroded XF-40 1871-CC and a nicely toned AU-50 1885-S. An 1873-CC with arrows half dollar did not sell. The Heritage, Dallas Sale, featured a well-struck 1852-O
quarter in AU-50 for $3,450. The lovely 1871-CC quarter in AU-53, which
is hallmarked by a mark between star six in Liberty's upper shoulder,
realized $66,125 at the May, Goldberg Sale, but did not sell in this auction.
The smooth 1872-CC quarter in XF-45 went for a strong $16,100 while a
cleaned 1872-CC dollar in XF-45 hammered for $3,737 and another piece in
AU-50, but bright from a dipping, went for $9,430. ==> Notes from the LSCC
regional meeting at the Baltimore Coin Show, November 11th, 2006
by Bill Bugert. Twenty-two people attended
the LSCC regional meeting at the Baltimore Coin Convention on November 11,
2006. Len Augsburger, the LSCC
Secretary-Treasurer, opened the meeting by welcoming the attendees. He
provided an update of the LSCC happenings, notably the seated coinage
exhibits at the Convention (more information in this newsletter) and the
latest issue of The Gobrecht Journal would
be postal mailed during the week of November 13th. Len Augsburger
started the educational program with a slide show presentation about the
Medals and Engravings of Christian Gobrecht. He showed pictures of and described the Charles Carroll medal
(last surviving signor of the Declaration of Independence), an 1830’s
Massachusetts Charitable Mechanics Association medal in gold, an 1830’s NE
Society for Promotion of Manufacturers and Mechanic Arts Medal (known as Gobrecht’s finest design), a medal of the Franklin
Institute of the State of Pennsylvania, and the First Steam Coinage medal
with an interesting 1823/2 overdate.
Len also depicted Washington and Franklin engravings from Christian Gobrecht. He
concluded his program with a “give-away;” Len
procured from eBay some interesting modern brass medals, which commemorate
Christian Gobrecht and offered one to each meeting
attendee. Gerry Fortin then introduced his
program on counterfeit seated dimes. Gerry
explained that he and Brian Greer are working on an extensive database of
dime counterfeits, and photos and descriptions are listed
on Gerry’s website at www.seateddimesvarieties.com.
Gerry emphasized that most dime counterfeits are made of brass and he
organizes counterfeit dimes into three categories: common, not common,
and crude. “Common dates” include 1861 (brass and silvered brass
examples known), 1888 (with needle denticles on the
obverse and rectangular denticles on the reverse),
and 1842 (with a rotated reverse). “Not common” dates include 1853 With
arrows (which actually uses an F-112 as a model), 1839-O in brass (uses an
F-103 model), and two 1872-CC’s (with an 1872-P obverse model and an unknown
CC reverse model). The “crude” dies were hand engraved and the dates
include 1858, 1874 NA (triple struck), 1880, and 1891. Since Gerry
works in The meeting wrapped up with an
informal social session before everyone adjourned to the bourse. The
photo below depicts most of the meeting attendees. LSCC
Regional meeting attendees at the Baltimore Convention, November 11, 2006. ==> Gerry Fortin's Seated Dime
registry set, PCGS/NGC #1 was impressive for the high grade
dimes and completeness. Len Augsburger's
Seated Quarter set, currently #1 on the PCGS Registry, was outstanding for
its completeness, high grade, and especially for its color evenness.
Dick Osburn's Seated Half set, currently #1 on the
NGC Registry, impressed everyone for the high grades and completeness.
Many visitors to the table enjoyed all exhibits. Gerry, Len, and Dick
were available to show their coins and answer questions about their lifetime
of collecting. Thanks, gentlemen, for taking
the time, effort, and expense to further the cause of Liberty Seated
numismatics and the Liberty Seated Collectors Club. Photos of these
proud exhibitors with their collections are shown
below. Proud
exhibitors Gerry Fortin, dimes, and Len Augsburger,
quarters. Dick Osburn
and his seated half dollar exhibit (Note: Dick had so many coins he had to
stack them in the case.). ==> “CCSL” Seated
Quarter Registry Set Sold at Auction by Len Augsburger.
A significant run of seated quarters, 76 business strike
pieces in all, was recently auctioned by Augustin
Capital Management. The sealed bid sale ended Saturday, November
11th, 2006 with final bids accepted at the Baltimore Coin and Currency
Convention. While the set as presented here did not contain the early Among Last but not
least, among The total of all prices realized
for the 76 coin run was $57,600. We
acknowledge Russell Augustin, President of Augustin Capital Management, who kindly furnished a list
of prices realized following the sale. Augustin
may be contacted at russau@hotmail.com. ==> Review of the
latest issue of The Gobrecht Journal by Len Augsburger. Issue #97 of the Gobrecht
Journal is now in the mail and has been received by
many. Leading off this issue is Gerry Fortin and Paul Bradley's
membership survey of the top 100 seated dime varieties. A date-by-date
analysis is included showing the grading distribution of each reported issue.
In a first for The Gobrecht Journal, a
top set survey has been performed, similar to what
the John Reich Collector's Society has been doing for some time. Here,
the best five Top 100 variety sets are presented
with all grades shown for each example in the set. The JRCS has been
reporting the top sixteen sets in set surveys, per Steve Crain this was a
completely arbitrary decision simply based on the amount of data that could
easily fit on two pages of the printed journal! In any case, perhaps a
similar analysis could be performed for the planned
2007 seated quarter survey. Next up is Len Augsburger's examination of the 1873 assay commission
records, including the reported weights of the ultra-rare 1873-CC no arrows
dime and quarter examined by the assay commission. Bob Foster follows
with an analysis of seated quarters from the Jules Reiver
collection recently sold by Heritage. This eclectic set had all manner
of pieces, from common date problem coins to rare varieties to occasionally
gemmy circulated material. While the strength of the Reiver set was in Bust varieties, many important seated
coins were included as well. Tom DeLorey next
opines on localized die doubling and how it might have
occurred during the hubbing process. I
immediately thought of the 1841-O quarter, which sometimes comes with doubled
Bill Bugert
then holds court on the four 1857-S half dollar varieties; this
nifty article gives good illustrations of the various date and mintmark
placements on the different obverse and reverse dies. Finally, Randy Wiley presents a
thorough and engaging treatment of the 1861-O half dollar,
fully documenting his examination of two different hoards of the date.
This is the best attempt yet at trying to figure out exactly which die
marriages were struck under federal, state, and
confederate auspices. There is also much interesting coverage of One note on
the Treasurer's report, given on the final page. Odyssey Marine
Exploration has purchased several hundred copies of the Journals including
Randy Wiley's research material on the 1861-O half dollars,
these are recorded in the report as "purchased back issues."
These Journals will be used by Odyssey in their
marketing of the seated half dollars recovered at the ==> Market commentary
by Dick Osburn (Editor’s note: Dick sent
this information out to his email listing but it is also on his website at
www.dickosburncoins.com.) I have just completed the Baltimore Coin
and Currency Show. Recent indications have been that the market is
cooling somewhat, but I'm not sure that Both Stacks
(ANR) and Bowers and Merena had auctions
before or during the show. Premium quality "collector grade"
coins, nice problem-free eye appealing XF-AU pieces, were
bid to incredibly strong prices. It wasn't
at all unusual to see nice AU55-58 examples bring MS61-62 money. The key
continues to be eye appeal. The premium quality coins with minimal
marks and eye-popping toning are the ones that are
going through the roof. Examples with less eye appeal are going more in
the range that you'd expect from the price guides,
although still at strong prices. Higher grades continue to be a little
more subdued, with a few bargains to be had here and
there. There's not as much collector demand
for the high grades. And, it probably doesn't
need to be said, but the rare dates are still escalating upward. Low
grades of key dates, when they're available,
continue to bring very strong prices. If you're
waiting for this type of coin to come back to earth it may be a long
wait. There are more collectors coming into the market who need them
than there are coins to go around. The show was great. Most
dealers, myself included, reported strong sales. As with the auctions,
the biggest demand was for rare dates and eye appealing type coins. One
trend I noticed, which confirms response to some of my recent ads, was
increased demand for seated dollars. These wonderful big coins have
lagged the market for a number of years, but they seem to be waking up.
They were my best selling series at the show. There was also strong demand
for registry set coins. A wonderful set of Walking Liberty halves
brought fantastic prices in the Bowers & Merena
auction. The activity on my web site
confirms that the market is still strong. You've
been finding the new purchases as fast as I put them out on the site (I sold
one coin this morning that had been on the site for 3 minutes). The
hottest series continues to be the half dollars, both bust and seated, with
demand now increasing for seated dollars. Rarities in all series are in
strong demand. Collectors are continuing to push to fill the final
holes in their sets. This is putting even greater pressure on prices
for the rare dates. My advice continues to be the
same - if you need a few hard-to-find dates to complete your set there may
never be a better time to buy them. I expect the general upward trend
in collector coins to continue, though possibly with a little less enthusiasm
than we saw last spring. That trend could conceivably continue for 5-10
years as the baby boom generation continues to add new collectors to the
market. But, the higher prices are bringing
some nice coins onto the market. Don't miss
the opportunities. Some of the best buys in today's market are higher
grades of the rare dates. If your pocket book can afford them, these
coins have enjoyed far less increase than the lower grade examples. ==> Half dollar clash
tool by Bill Bugert. I’ve
been receiving a lot of email lately on half dollar clash marks. To aid
readers in understanding clash marks, I decided to use modern technology to
improve a crude (transparency) tool I used for many years. The
following two photos depict the opposite side of a half dollar showing in the
background as seen from two perspectives, the obverse and reverse. I
used a nice original XF45 1840 half dollar as the
host for these photos. If you study them closely, you will be able to
see the opposite (and inverted) side of the coin in the background.
With this, you will be able to compare die clash marks on actual coins to
these photos and be able to determine from where on the opposite side of the
coin the clash mark originated. For example, many
half dollars have what appear to be and mistakenly called a “cud” in the
lower right reverse shield. Studying the reverse perspective die clash tool, you will see that this clash
originates from the area under Half
Dollar Clash tool – Obverse perspective Half
Dollar Clash tool – Reverse perspective ==> Subscriber
correspondence. From Ron Feuer:
One more thing, Bill. It would be a nice thing for ALL existing LSCC
members to try to make it to the FUN show in January for a group photo.
Then the ANA could publish that. Since LSCC won its recent fine ANA
award, everyone should make a strong effort to get to that show for that
purpose. What do you think? Maybe you can suggest it to John
McCloskey. Advertisements for the Since 1979, David Lawrence Rare Coins has specialized in
Seated and Barber coinage for collectors. Please visit our web site for 6,000+ offerings of U.S.
& World coins, currency, and stamps for sale and auction. We are also interested in buying or selling your coins at
auction. http://www.davidlawrence.com
or phone 1-800-776-0560 members: PNG, ANA (life), FUN, CSNS Calendar - November 2006 issue of The Gobrecht
Journal – It was postal mailed on November 27th
and you should have received it by now. - Quarter census mailed out –
Early 2007. - 100th Issue of The Gobrecht Journal – November 2007. Information, input, comments, or suggestions for
improvements to this E-Gobrecht are actively solicited from anyone and may
be sent to wb8cpy@arrl.net or by
writing or calling: Bill Bugert Editor, E-Gobrecht (717) 337-0229 To be added or removed
from the E-Gobrecht mailing list, send an
email message with the words "Subscribe/Unsubscribe" in the subject
line of the message to wb8cpy@arrl.net. Information on the The LSCC Pledge. To
encourage, promote, and dispense numismatic knowledge of the Liberty Seated
coins; to cultivate fraternal relations among its members and all those
interested in the science of numismatics. LSCC Officers. President:
John McCloskey. Vice-President:
Larry Briggs. Secretary/Treasurer:
Len Augsburger. LSCC Membership Information. Dues are $15 per year and include three issues of
The Gobrecht Journal, an award winning
numismatic publication. To join the Liberty Seated Collectors
Club, for The Gobrecht Journal mailing address changes, or for other
membership questions, correspond with the LSCC Secretary Len Augsburger at: Leonard Augsburger Phone: (847) 816-1649. Email: leonard_augsburger@hotmail.com. Articles, comments, or advertisements for publication in The Gobrecht
Journal may be addressed to the LSCC President: Dr. John W. McCloskey
President, LSCC, and Editor, The Gobrecht
Journal Email address: John.McCloskey@notes.udayton.edu
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