The
E-Gobrecht
Volume 2, Issue 7, July
2006
Whole Number 16
This is an electronic publication of the Liberty Seated
Collectors Club (LSCC). The LSCC is a non-profit organization dedicated
to the attributions of the Liberty Seated Coin series. The LSCC provides
the information contained in this email newsletter from various sources free of
charge as a general service to the membership and others with this numismatic
interest. You do not have to be a LSCC member to benefit from this
newsletter; subscription to the E-Gobrecht is available to anyone.
All disclaimers are in effect as the completeness and/or accuracy of the
information contained herein cannot be completely verified. Contact
information is included near the end of this newsletter.
Acknowledgements and
Miscellaneous Notes from the Editor
Although off the track of Liberty Seated coinage, here is a
valuable lesson for everyone with a computer. My computer system failed
this past month. (Actually, I powered it down to preclude problems
from an oncoming lightening storm only to have Windows prompt me for an unknown
user’s password when powered backup.) Those words strike terror in many
ardent computer users like me. I, fortunately, had a very recent data
files backup copy but this backup did not include my emails nor address
book. Oh boy! I had to reconstruct my address book from a paper
copy but I lost many valuable emails including some from numismatists meant for
this issue and some new subscriber requests. If you sent me something
that I did not answer or was not included in this issue, please send it again
and I will include it in the next issue of the E-Gobrecht. By the
way, learning this lesson the hard way made me invest in a separate backup
system where everything (i.e., the entire “C” drive) is backed-up
routinely.
Many thanks to Jim Gray, Gerry Fortin, Len Augsburger, and
the subscribers who corresponded with me.
Through the generosity of Gerry Fortin, the previous issues
of the E-Gobrecht are readily accessible on his seated dime website at http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/LSCC.htm.
Please consider submitting something for print.
Features in this issue
==> Question of Month: Answers to June’s
questions and this month’s new question.
==> Auction News by Jim Gray.
==> Website Updates at www.seateddimevarieties.com
by Gerry Fortin.
==> Announcement of the LSCC regional meeting at
the July Baltimore coin show by Len Augsburger.
==> 1875 half dollar Recut 1 5 variety by Bill
Bugert.
==> Recent subscriber correspondence.
Details
==> Question of the month by Jim Gray. This
forum hopes to increase collector interaction and correspondence. Your
participation is welcomed and encouraged. Send your comments to the
E-Gobrecht Editor at wb8cpy@arrl.net.
June’s question
What is your opinion of the 100-point grading scale
proposed by people with economic ties to third party grading?
Replies
Dennis Fortier:
A system, any system is only as good as its practitioners. The third
party graders are throwing up a smoke screen. They want us to think that
the 70 point system is the problem. They know what the problem is and
they don't want the proper remedy. The problem is these so called EBAY
GRADING COMPANYS - those fly by night graders that put MS-70 on anything that
does not move. The solution of course is industry oversight and
accreditation of graders. A second point system will only lead to
confusion, making it harder for new collectors to get a handle on our hobby.
This of course is not in the long-term best interest of numismatics. I
hope leaders on the collecting side like the LSCC will speak out against
putting in place a second system. The Metric system never took hold even
thought it too was technically superior. The English system was to
entrenched. The 70 point system is also well entrenched and has done a
lot of good for our hobby.
Editor: I know I
had other replies but lost them with my computer failure. Would the
others please resend them and I will include them in the next issue?
Question of this Month
(July)
Would you pay a premium of 20% or more to buy a problem
free Seated coin with beautiful Wayte Raymond style toning?
==>
Auction
News
By Jim
Gray
The Heritage,
Seated coins of interest included an AU-53 1844-O half dime
for $2,300 and a cleaned 1853-O no arrows half dime in AU went for $1,840.
A cleaned 1856-S dime in AU-58 sold for $1,495 while a
nicely toned MS-62 of the same date did not sell. Two 1860-O dimes were
offered, both being near mint state and well struck but impaired. The
first, graded as AU-55 cleaned, sold for $4,600 while the second looked UNC and
hammered for $7,475 in spite of "altered services". The 1862-S
dime in XF-45 was from my collection and garnered $1,150, almost double of what
it sold for two years ago. An 1871-CC with AU details, but corroded, went
for $3,450 while an AU-50 1874-CC dime with some roughness above the bowknot
rang the bell for a whopping $37,355. A nicely toned 1885-S in MS-65 did
not sell.
A deeply toned MS-62 1852-O quarter with a decent strike
did not sell nor did an 1862-S in AU-53 and an 1865-S in AU-50. A
corroded 1859-S with AU details did sell for $960. The 1872-CC quarter
was graded AU-55 by PCGS in spite of porous surfaces and a stain at 9K on the
reverse. It, understandably, did not sell.
An original 1873-CC arrows half in XF-45 hammered for
$2,185 while a nicely toned 1874-CC in XF-40 went for $2,990 in spite of light
scratches.
A cleaned AU-58 1852 original dollar sold for $20,700 while
matching grade XF-45 1854 dollars sold for $4,168 and $4,715 respectively.
A bright 1871-CC in AU-53 did not sell, but an AU-55 1872-CC dollar with
some marks garnered $10,350. An original 1878-CC Trade dollar in AU-58
commanded a strong $11,500.
The ANR Lake Michigan and Springfield Sale in late June
contained a nice 1844-O half dime in AU-58 which sold for $2,900. 1859-S
dimes in VF-30 and VF-25, both with marks, sold for $650 and $750 respectively.
An 1874-CC dime deemed genuine by NCS and catalogued as having a
sharpness of AU-50 net VF-35 by the cataloguer had attractive toning. It
may well be that the toning was artificial, but the coin still sold for an
incredible $28,750.
The original, problem free AU-53 1874-CC dime from my
collection sold for $27,600 two years ago so the prices for this date are going
out of sight.
The sale contained four circulating Gobrecht dollars.
An original XF-45 from the December 1836 issue sold for $14,950, but
showed distinct weakness on the ER of Liberty. A splendid PR-63 from the
issue of March 1837 sold for $32,000 while a nice AU-53 of the same issue
garnered $18,400. A holed and plugged example of the March 1837 issue
with AU details hammered for $5,060. A cleaned AU-58 1854 dollar went for
$3,910 while an 1855 with the same description sold for the same price. A
well-struck 1856 dollar, rarely seen thus, sold for only $2,185 in AU-58.
The Stacks Sale in late June contained part of the Northern
Bay Collection, but like the previous sale, there were few scarce and rare
Seated coins. A weakly struck 1849-O half dime in BU did not sell nor did
a cleaned 1873-CC dime in XF with a number of obverse spots. A 1862-S
quarter graded MS-62, but described as having a matte like surface, sold for a
reasonable $4,312. A raw 1871-CC half dollar graded gem BU in this sale
and also graded the same in the David Queller Sale sold for $17,250. A
lightly toned 1855 dollar graded BU sold for $4,600.
==> Website Updates at www.seateddimevarieties.com
by Gerry Fortin.
Message board activity at www.seateddimevarieties
has been on the increase in June. Our posting rate is approaching 10 per
days across both seated dime and other seated coinage denominations. One
of the important new ideas to appear on the forums pertains to contemporary
counterfeit pieces. There was a clear desire by the readership to
establish a knowledge database of seated contemporary counterfeits since
members were unaware of an existing reference source.
Both Brian Greer and I had a keen interest in this subject
and continued to exchange emails on moving the concept forward. Brian
indicated that he owned a fair number of seated dime contemporary counterfeits
that could form the initial “stocking” of the reference database. He was
kind enough to send me his collection for photography.
Adding the contemporary counterfeit database to the website
was a straightforward task. The free Preview date and mintmark page was
reused and modified for the construction of the counterfeit seated dime
index. Within the index, readers simply need to click on a date/mintmark
link which leads directly to descriptive pages for each known contemporary
counterfeit. Large obverse and reverse photographs of each counterfeit are
presented along with pertinent commentaries. For those E-Gobrecht readers
who are interested in learning more, simply click on this link. Unfortunately,
I had to return back to
For readers who have further interests on this subject, the
permanent link for the contemporary counterfeit database is found at www.seateddimevarieties.com
in the lower left hand column. If there is enough interest, I would be
willing to add incremental databases for other seated denominations after the
seated dime archive has mature and been refined.
The next idea for the website is the addition of a circulated
seated dime “registry” section. This idea arose out of brainstorming
session towards how to stimulate more attention to seated coinage collecting
and, in particular, enhancing the seated dime collecting experience for members
of www.seateddimevarieties.com. We all know how significant a role the
PCGS and NGC registries have played for advanced mint state set building.
For seated coinage, even collecting and building a set of AU coins by
date and mintmark can be beyond the financial means of many new collectors,
thus the need for a forum for the average collector to display his or her
seated coinage circulated sets. Submission of coins and their uncertified
(raw) grades would have to be on an honors basis with a moderator to
question and override any “excessive” grade claims.
Conceptually, this idea could be implemented as follows:
Starting with a seated dimes registry database, a link is
added to the www.seateddimevarieties
homepage for both "Liberty Seated Dime Date and Mintmark" and
"Liberty Seated Dime Date, Mintmark With Major Varieties" registry
index pages that would allow paid subscribers to present their collections.
Each index page would highlight the "registered" sets of the
web-book member with set name, % completion and average grade. A rating
system would also be necessary, my first though would be to use the approach
developed by PCGS. The inputs and changes to the "registered
sets" would have to be done through emails with Gerry Fortin until I could
find a piece of software that would open the change process to web-book
members. Please understand that individuals who desire to “register”
their seated dime sets would need to be subscribing members at www.seateddimevarieties.com.
Since the only income stream for all costs and time associated with maintenance
of the website comes from subscribers, then I believe it is fair to limit the
participation to those individuals who provide some financial support to the
web-book effort.
I would encourage feedback and comments about a seated dime
registry database
As always….Happy Hunting!
==> LSCC regional meeting at the July Baltimore
coin show by Len Augsburger. There will be a Liberty Seated Collectors
Club meeting at the upcoming Baltimore Show on Friday, July 14, at 9 AM in room
301 of the Baltimore Convention Center. Hope to see all you there.
==> 1875 half dollar Recut 1 5 variety by Bill Bugert.
Working off James Bailey’s listing of favorite unlisted half dollar varieties
(see Volume 2, Issue 5), here is what he calls the “1875 Recut 1 and 5.”
Not listed as one of the varieties in The Complete Guide to Liberty Seated
Half Dollars, Randy Wiley and I were not aware of 1875 recut date varieties
13 years ago because our research effort on 1875 half dollars was merely
casual. Presently, this recut date and a few other very minor recut date
varieties s are known. Shown in the photos below are close ups of the 1
and 5 of the date in the 1875 half dollar Recut 1 5 variety. Looking
closely where the arrows indicate, you will observe repunched date segments on
the lower flag of the 1 and the lower loop of the 5. This coin is from my
collection and grades a nice XF45; these recuttings will show plainly on lower
graded coins. The reverse has the Type 1 hub typical of this date.
There are no other major die characteristics for this variety. It has 156
reeds, one of the five reeds counts for 1875 circulation strike half dollars
(the others are 144, 145, 153, and 154). I hope you have this variety in
your collection or find it at the next coin show.
|
|
|
|
1875 half dollar Recut 1
5 variety: close up of 1 recut north. |
1875 half dollar Recut 1
5 variety: close up of 5 recut north. |
==> Subscriber correspondence. Here is some
information the Editor recently received. I know I lost some others so
please resend them.
Len Augsburger: 
Paul Kluth: Just read
in Berg's press release in Coin World that LSCC is having a gathering in
Baltimor. Figured you might know some of the details...? Since I
don't travel to ANA / Central States, thought this might be a good way to hook
up with some fellow members? (Editor’s note: See Len
Augsburger’s announcement in this issue of the E-Gobrecht.)
Advertisements for the
Sale of Liberty Seated Coinage
Seated Dime--1880 VG10, five letters in obverse shield
legible, "Y" very weak; obverse rim good; rev. rim weak from 8:00 to
11:00, "ONE DIME" very legible---$199, $4 P&I, call Whalen @
831-475-0934.
Seated Dime--1851 VG8; very good rims; rev. planchet
lamination from center between I & M down to rim @ 6:30; $25 + $2P & $2
insurance (if desired); call Whalen @ 831-475-0934.
Seated Dime--1890 VF30; obverse rim fine, reverse rim
adequate; $30+$2P & $2 insurance (if desired); call Whalen @ 831-475-0934.
Calendar
- Next Issue of the Gobrecht Journal mailed -
Mid-July.
- LSCC Regional meeting – July 14, 2006 9 AM, room
301 of the Baltimore Convention Center.
- LSCC Annual meeting – 2006 ANA Convention, Denver,
Colorado, August 17, 2006, 9 AM, Colorado Convention Center.
Information, input, comments, or suggestions for
improvements to this E-Gobrecht are
actively solicited from anyone and may be sent to wb8cpy@arrl.net or by
writing or calling:
Bill Bugert
Editor, E-Gobrecht
P.O. Box 3761
Gettysburg, PA 17325-6927
(717) 337-0229
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Information on the Liberty
Seated Collectors Club
The LSCC Pledge.
To encourage, promote, and dispense numismatic knowledge of the Liberty Seated
coins; to cultivate fraternal relations among its members and all those
interested in the science of numismatics.
LSCC Officers.
President: John McCloskey.
Vice-President: Larry
Briggs.
Secretary/Treasurer: Mark
Sheldon.
LSCC Membership Information. Dues are $15 per year and include three issues of
the Gobrecht Journal, an award winning numismatic publication. To
join the Liberty Seated Collectors Club, for Gobrecht Journal mailing
address changes, or for other membership questions, correspond with the LSCC
Secretary Mark Sheldon at
Articles, comments, or advertisements for publication in the Gobrecht Journal may be
addressed to the LSCC President:
John W. McCloskey
President, LSCC, and Editor,
Gobrecht Journal
Email address: John.McCloskey@notes.udayton.edu