The
E-Gobrecht
Volume 2, Issue 8, August
2006
Whole Number 17
This is an electronic publication of the Liberty Seated
Collectors Club (LSCC). The LSCC is a non-profit organization dedicated
to the attributions of the Liberty Seated Coin series. The LSCC provides
the information contained in this email newsletter from various sources free of
charge as a general service to the membership and others with this numismatic
interest. You do not have to be a LSCC member to benefit from this
newsletter; subscription to the E-Gobrecht is available to anyone.
All disclaimers are in effect as the completeness and/or accuracy of the
information contained herein cannot be completely verified. Contact
information is included near the end of this newsletter.
Miscellaneous Notes from
the Editor
Reminders.
The latest issue of the Gobrecht
Journal, postal mailed last week, contains a ballot for new LSCC officers.
Please submit your votes by August 11th to LSCC President John
McCloskey per the directions on the ballot.
The LSCC will have its annual
meeting at the Denver ANA Convention on August 17th at 9 AM in room
712 of the Convention Center. Many agenda items are already formulated
but new items are always welcomed. Anyone and everyone are invited.
Please try to attend.
Acknowledgements.
Many thanks to Jim Gray, Len Augsburger, Darrell Low, and the subscribers who
corresponded with me.
Relevant Trivia.
Did you know that Christian Gobrecht served as a Private with the 1st Regiment
Pennsylvania Volunteers during the War of 1812? Source: The Charles
Gobrecht Darrach (Christian Gobrecht’s grandson) paper file on Christian
Gobrecht archived in The Historical Society of Pennsylvania.
Availability of past issues. Through the generosity of Gerry Fortin, the previous
issues of the E-Gobrecht are readily accessible on his seated dime
website at http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/LSCC.htm.
Please consider submitting something for print.
Features in this issue
==> Question of Month.
==> Auction News by Jim Gray.
==> A Review of the latest Gobrecht Journal,
Issue #96 by Len Augsburger.
==> LSCC Regional Meeting at the July Baltimore
show by Darrell Low.
==> Trade dollar presentation at the Denver 2006
ANA Convention by Bill Cowburn.
==> 1875-S half dollar with a 1 from the rock by
Bill Bugert.
==> Recent subscriber correspondence.
Details
==> Question of the month by Jim Gray. This
forum hopes to increase collector interaction and correspondence. Your
participation is welcomed and encouraged. Send your comments to the
E-Gobrecht Editor at wb8cpy@arrl.net.
June’s question
What is your opinion of the 100-point grading scale
proposed by people with economic ties to third party grading?
Replies
Whalen: You
answered the question when you posed it. The 100-point grading scale was,
in my opinion, proposed by those who have/had financial interest in switching
the point scale from 70 to 100. One would, in effect, have to have every
currently slabbed coin that one owns resubmitted and regraded. This would
be a substantial investment in time and money, not to mention the risk that
some coins would not survive the regrade with current value intact. I am
definitely against the 100-point system.
Darrell Low: In
regards to your June question on the 100-point grading system, I am strongly opposed
to it. It is hard enough dealing with 10 grades of Uncirculated, four
grades of AU, and two grades of everything else. Going to a 100-point
system will perhaps create 15 grades of Uncirculated, more different grades of
AU, and everything else that will make it even more confusing for every
collector.
Bill Bugert: As
an engineer, I learned in school that there is always room to improve
everything. I quickly learned in both military and corporate careers that
this belief is idealistic. Better is usually the enemy of good enough.
Improvements can and do cost time, money, and the improved “item” usually
suffers (in performance, capability, meeting requirements, etc.). In this
instance, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Broadening a well
understood, less than perfect 70 point grading scale to a more ambiguous (and
probably more subjective) also less than perfect 100 point system costs the
current slab holders and helps no one but those with a financial interest in
pursuing the change. Keep it the way it is. The Sheldon 70 point
system may have its’ flaws but I believe the 100 point scale could be worse.
July’s question
Would you pay a premium of 20% or more to buy a problem
free Seated coin with beautiful Wayte Raymond style toning?
Replies
Darrell Low: For the July question on Wayte
Raymond toning, I do not think toning itself would make me pay a 20% premium.
But if the coin was original, well struck, had no distracting marks and
the Wayte Raymond toning further enhanced already good eye appeal, then I could
understand paying a 20% premium.
Bill Bugert:
Although I truly love original, nicely toned coins and prefer them to white
coins, I would consider a 10% premium reasonable for a Wayte Raymond toned coin
but not a 20% premium.
Question of this Month
(August)
A dealer has two examples of a
coin that you need for your XF/AU Seated set. The first coin is graded
AU-58 by a major grading service, but has dark murky toning. Close
examination reveals a number of small marks, scratches, etc. under the toning.
The second coin is graded XF-45 by the same service and has a good
strike, smooth mark free wear, and very attractive natural toning. If the
dealer priced the coins exactly the same, which one would you purchase?
==>
Auction
News
By Jim
Gray
The Heritage Dallas Sale contained
a large array of desirable Seated coins with quite an unusual number of
A VG-10 1849-O quarter with
natural gray toning garnered $2,070 while an 1855-S quarter in AU-53, but
rather seriously impaired by a long scratch across
Both lots 2256 and 2257 featured a
1936-D
An 1872-CC half dollar in XF-40,
but cleaned, went for $672 and an additional piece of the same date graded
XF-45, cleaned, sold for less at $488. An 1873-CC no arrows half in XF-40,
cleaned and with scratches, went for $805 while a very nice 1874-CC in XF-45
with attractive toning hammered for $4,025.
An 1836 Gobrecht Dollar from the
issue of December 1836 in cleaned VF-30 realized $6,037 and the same coin with
AU-55 details, but repaired, sold for $8,912. An 1836 Gobrecht Dollar
from the issue of March 1837 was slabbed Proof-55, in spite of old cleaning
hairlines, and brought a robust $15,525.
A very nice 1846-O Liberty Seated
dollar in MS-63 which was well struck except for the right hand stars, and with
mellow original toning, sold for $25,300 while an 1850-O dollar, tied for the
finest graded at MS-64, hammered for $37,375, in spite of some toning
irregularity. An 1871-CC dollar, which was catalogued as F-12 and
cleaned, went for $2,185 while an XF-40 cleaned example of the same date
garnered $5,175.
It was slim pickings for Seated
collectors at the Bowers & Merena July Baltimore sale.
==> A Review of the latest Gobrecht Journal,
Issue #96 by Len Augsburger. The latest edition of the Gobrecht
Journal, issue #96, mailed out the week of July 23rd, contains an excellent
mix of variety studies, population analyses, and sales reports. Len
Augsburger kicks off the issue with the story of Glenn Hoidale, a half dime
collector from the 1950s. Hoidale left behind a wealth of data on half
dimes, which richly details his collecting career over a thirty-year
period. Two articles on 1876 trade dollars follow. In the first,
Bill Cowburn shares the discovery of an 1876 "type 1.5" proof trade
dollar, featuring a transitional obverse. This coin has now been
exhibited at several shows. Michael Fey tells the story of the sister
coin, an uncirculated 1876 trade dollar which also demonstrates the
transitional obverse. Exciting discoveries, both!
Dennis Garstang covers the scarce
seated dollars of the Civil War era, looking at the population reports and analyzing
published prices for these tough cartwheels. Tom DeLorey brings new
insight to the extremely rare 1841 no drapery proof dime, using an 1840
splasher recently sold by Heritage to suggest that the 1841 was an evolution in
design and not a "one-off" produced by an overpolished die or some
other preparation anomaly. (John McCloskey commented on this issue
previously, in GJ #80.)
Dick Osburn analyzes results from
the recent Jules Reiver sale, which contained nearly every seated coin plus
several scarce varieties. Varieties were also the theme of articles by
Jack White and half-dime specialist Stephen Crain, examining misplaced digits
on an 1869 dollar and 1841 half-dime, respectively. Bill Bugert
contributed a well-illustrated article showing the die marriages for 1860-S
half dollars. W. David Perkins describes an 1842 dollar with rim cuds,
noting cuds on contemporary dimes as well, as a good example of the synthesis
by comparing multiple seated series. Paul Bradley comments on the current
LSCC survey to identify the ten greatest
John McCloskey prepared a few
notes on the fixed price lists issued by Kamal Ahwash, circa 1980. These
lists, no doubt scarce today, would make a neat "go with" item for
any collection of seated coins (Ahwash's extensive dealing activities were
unknown to this author). John also presented additional analysis on Steve
Crain's half dime census originally published in issue #95 of the Gobrecht
Journal, slicing the census data by mint and reported grade. The
issue is wrapped up with a mystery, a
==> LSCC Regional Meeting at the July Baltimore
show by Darrell Low. The first LSCC regional meeting at the
After member introductions,
Leonard Augsburger spoke about a Massachusetts Mechanics Association medal that
was attributed to Christian Gobrecht. This particular medal was passed
around the room for the enjoyment of the guests.
Conversation then moved towards
some of the upcoming articles in the Gobrecht Journal. The summer
issue will contain an article on the Seated half dime archives of Glenn
Hoidale. Mr. Hoidale’s archives spanned from 1955-1988 and contained
about 20,000 half dimes. The fall issue will contain an article on
further research being done on 1861-O half dollars by Randy Wiley. The
much-anticipated Seated dime survey by Paul Bradley and Gerry Fortin will also
appear in this issue.
The next topic of discussion
focused on creating a centralized resource of Liberty Seated information on the
Internet. This initiative was well received by the attendees. It
was also noted that there is an effort to build a contemporary counterfeit
Seated coinage reference on Gerry Fortin’s seateddimevarieties.com website.
The website also contains a forum for Seated coinage enthusiasts to discuss
anything about Seated coinage. The E-Gobrecht was praised by many
as an excellent source of breaking information. Lastly, Randy Wiley
provided some general information from his research on the 1861-O halves.
This generated a lively discussion among the attendees with many interesting
questions asked.
The next LSCC regional meeting
will occur at the November 2006
==> Trade dollar presentation at the Denver 2006
ANA Convention by Bill Cowburn. I am scheduled to speak on Thursday,
August 17th at 2:00 in Room 704 and the title of my talk is ‘The
United States Trade Dollar – History and Varieties’. Of course, I would
love to have as many people interested in US Trade Dollars in attendance as
possible. My talk will cover “Why was this coin produced?” The
politics that were involved in its creation, the mining interests of the time,
the Crime of 1873 and how the Trade Dollar came to circulate in the
==> 1875-S half dollar with a 1 from the rock by
Bill Bugert. Here’s another half dollar variety from James Bailey’s
listing of favorite unlisted half dollar varieties (see Volume 2, Issue 5); the
“1875-S 1 from the rock.” Not given a separate WB number nor plated
in The Complete Guide to Liberty Seated Half Dollars, Randy Wiley and I
did mention this variety in the text and included it in WB-101. Shown in
the photo below is a close up of the digit protruding from the rock above the 1
in the date. The 1 from the rock will most likely show even on low graded
coins because it is in a recessed area. The obverse also has heavy clash
lines in the drapery below
|
|
1875-S half dollar with
a 1 from the rock. |
Reverse die cracks for
the 1875-S half dollar with a 1 from the rock. |
==> Subscriber correspondence.
David Ginsburg:
James Bailey writes in a
postal letter: Bill, I am glad to see you putting pictures out of my
unlisted varieties. That is great. I did not list my favorite
unlisted variety because you and Randy pictured it in your book (Ed.
The Complete Guide to
Recently, I found a coin that took
11 years to locate in the grade and quality that was satisfactory for my
collection. It is the 1876-CC, Medium CC with the 8 in the
denticles. Kent Ingram pictured this coin in the July 1995 issue of the Gobrecht
Journal, issue number 63. That began my search and I just recently
located one. As you know, I do not center in on
Jason Feldman: Bill,
There have been some great articles on the value of problem free CC coins
(dimes). Perhaps a study of Net grade coins should be done. Most of
these coins (even the slabbed ones) have one problem or another.
Additionally, (most coin value listings show) the value listings
for VF20 and XF40 (coins) and there are many coins that fall between (grading
VF-25, 30, and 35). How do we value these?
Jason Feldman: Bill,
I have purchased an 1876-CC dime with an unknown reverse. Perhaps some of
the readers have a similar coin.
Anonymous numismatist:
I have yet another 1875-S micro S half dollar to add to your census. I
found a VG in a shop on the way home from the
Advertisements for the
Seated Dime--1880 VG10, five letters in obverse shield
legible, "Y" very weak; obverse rim good; rev. rim weak from 8:00 to
11:00, "ONE DIME" very legible---$199, $4 P&I, call Whalen @
831-475-0934.
Seated Dime--1851 VG8; very good rims; rev. planchet
lamination from center between I & M down to rim @ 6:30; $25 + $2P & $2
insurance (if desired); call Whalen @ 831-475-0934.
Seated Dime--1890 VF30; obverse rim fine, reverse rim
adequate; $30+$2P & $2 insurance (if desired); call Whalen @ 831-475-0934.
Calendar
- Issue 96 of the Gobrecht Journal was postal
mailed the third week of July.
- LSCC officer ballots due – August 11th
to John McCloskey.
- LSCC Annual meeting – 2006 ANA Convention, Denver,
Colorado, August 17, 2006, 9 AM, Room 712, Colorado Convention Center.
- Next issue of the Gobrecht Journal –
November 2006.
- LSCC Regional meeting -
Information, input, comments, or suggestions for
improvements to this E-Gobrecht are
actively solicited from anyone and may be sent to wb8cpy@arrl.net or by
writing or calling:
Bill Bugert
Editor, E-Gobrecht
(717) 337-0229
To be added or removed
from the E-Gobrecht mailing list, send an email message with the words
"Subscribe/Unsubscribe" in the subject line of the message to wb8cpy@arrl.net.
Information on the Liberty
Seated Collectors Club
The LSCC Pledge.
To encourage, promote, and dispense numismatic knowledge of the Liberty
Seated coins; to cultivate fraternal relations among its members and all those
interested in the science of numismatics.
LSCC Officers.
President: John McCloskey.
Vice-President: Larry
Briggs.
Secretary/Treasurer: Mark
Sheldon.
LSCC Membership Information. Dues are $15 per year and include three issues of
the Gobrecht Journal, an award winning numismatic publication. To
join the Liberty Seated Collectors Club, for Gobrecht Journal mailing
address changes, or for other membership questions, correspond with the LSCC
Secretary Mark Sheldon at
Articles, comments, or advertisements for publication in the Gobrecht Journal may be
addressed to the LSCC President:
John W. McCloskey
President, LSCC, and Editor,
Gobrecht Journal
Email address: John.McCloskey@notes.udayton.edu