Volume 3, Issue 1, January 2007
Whole Number 22
This is an electronic publication of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC).† The LSCC is a non-profit organization dedicated to the attributions of the Liberty Seated Coin series.† The LSCC provides the information contained in this email newsletter from various sources free of charge as a general service to the membership and others with this numismatic interest.† You do not have to be a LSCC member to benefit from this newsletter; subscription to the E-Gobrecht is available to anyone.† All disclaimers are in effect as the completeness and/or accuracy of the information contained herein cannot be completely verified.† Contact information is included near the end of this newsletter.
Miscellaneous Notes from the Editor
Acknowledgements.† Many thanks to Gerry Fortin, Jim Gray, Len Augsburger, and the subscribers who corresponded with me.
Availability of past issues.† Through the generosity of Gerry Fortin, the previous issues of the E-Gobrecht are readily accessible on his seated dime website at http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/LSCC.htm.
Please consider submitting something for print.† It need not be elaborate; it can be something as simple as a short note on your favorite variety, neat find, nice cherry pick, happenings at a coin show, rare Liberty Seated coinage coming up for auction, etc.† If you are interested in it, rest assured, others will be too!† Sharing information is a goal of this newsletter. This is a continuing plea.
Features in this issue
==>† Question of Month.
==>† Reflections on 2006 and Other Topics by Gerry Fortin
==>† Gobrecht Journal Index for 2006 by Bill Bugert
==>† Branch Mint Proofs in the Liberty Seated Series: Twenty Cent Pieces, Second in a Series by Len Augsburger
==>† Recent subscriber correspondence.
==>† Question of the month by Jim Gray.† This forum hopes to increase collector interaction and correspondence.† Your participation is welcomed and encouraged.† Send your comments to the E-Gobrecht Editor at email@example.com.
If you owned a scare or rare Seated coin, which is original, but with deep murky toning, would you dip it?
From Charles Sullivan: December's question really has nothing to do with "scarce" or "rare;" by definition, ALL surviving Seated Liberty coinage may be defined as scarce, for very few non-collectors ever have the privilege of holding and admiring one of these beautiful artifacts of American commerce in the 19th century. Over the last 160 years, the temptation to make "dirty" silver coins look bright and shiny has overwhelmed countless thousands of layman and collectors alike. By my estimation, fewer than 10% of extant Seated Liberty coins have escaped some form of doctoring since leaving the mint. The current market generally prefers doctored coins over "ugly" ones, what with registry sets, NGC's "conservation" sideline business, fat premiums being paid for Wayte Raymond album toning (passive doctoring), and the like. The venerable Weimar White is a purist representing one end of the spectrum -- he equates any form of toning or oxidation as "wear." I reside at the other extreme, for I believe that if one cannot live with "deep murky toning," then one should sublimate his ego and sell the coin to another collector instead of dipping it. It absolutely kills me to look into a dealer's showcase and see a nicely struck Seated Liberty coin with AU wear appear as bright and white as a quarter in a sealed U.S. Mint set. As a society, we make a big deal out of leaving clean air, clean water, and the like for our children. Should we not leave "original" coins for the next generation of collectors.
From Denis Loring: AAARGHHH!!!!!
By Jim Gray
As always, I could not refuse Bill Bugert's timely correspondence
asking if an article or commentary could be submitted for the January
E-Gobrecht. So here I am on a flight somewhere between Chicago
and Beijing and sometime between December 31, 2006 and January 1,
2007 realizing that New Year's Eve will be missed on both sides
of the planet. The solitude of the UA flight (only 10 seats
filled in 747-business class) allows quiet time to reflect on this
article and the important 2006 numismatic events that pertain to
For your information and use, here is a listing of the articles
published in the Gobrecht Journal in 2006
(Issues 95, 96, and 97).
The twenty cent piece was introduced in
1875, accompanied by a rich variety of twenty cent patterns that
began in 1874. The Bowers & Merena
sale of the
2. Bowers&Merena ANA 7/1981:540 ($13,500). PR65, untoned, and color plated.
3. Auction '87:86 ($3,850) and Auction 87:722 ($6,600).
Both color plated. Lot 722 later appeared in
4. Superior 8/1992:119, NGC PR63 ($7,700). Per the catalog, "identifiable by a long disturbance in the right obverse field beneath the heavy gunmetal blue toning." Black and white plate.
5. Heritage ANA 7/1997:8545 ($3,565), PCI PR62. Black and white catalog. Identified here as the Roy Rauch plate coin from Breen's Encyclopedia of Proof Coins (p. 236 in Breen).
6.. Superior 10/2000:4358, PCI PR63 ($4,025).
Previously in Kagin's 8/1986 ANA:4362
($13,200), later in Stack's 5/1998:425 ($7,700), and in Heritage
11/14/2000:2238 ($4,000). Black and white catalog plate in the
8.. ANR 1/2004:1403 ($103,500), PCGS PR64CAM.
From Jason Feldman: Hi Bill, I have included
a photo of a lovely 1855 dime with a die crack running from star
4 into the body of Liberty. I am interested to see if other
like it will surface. The coin is a full original MS62 as
graded by NGC. The crack is strong extending
from star 4 across the fields and fully
visible onto the body. I would imagine this crack extending
beyond the star would only be visible on a mint state coin or one
that was close to being mint state. (Ed., anyone have another
one of these out there?).
Dr. Mark Kimpton wrote an insightful book on Morgan dollar clashed dies. Clashing, a violent event, sometimes causes breakage of the die holder, which then allows the dies to rotate either CW or CCW during subsequent striking. One thing that Dr. Kimpton pointed out in his ground breaking book, was that clashing can be dead center, or to the right, left, north or south if the dies were not aligned in a parallel manner. Dr. Kimpton found clashed "O" mint marks on the obverse of some varieties, and letters transfer from obverse to reverse and vice versa. None of this was initially obvious until a tool was used correctly. I believe LSCC members would benefit from reading Dr. Kimpton's book and from getting a large obverse and reverse image from you that they can print on transparency paper. There's still much waiting to be discovered in seated halves and other seated coinage. Best wishes.
From Bob Foster: Bill, please keep me on
the list for the Journal emails, I love it! Thanks.
From Byron Powell: Bill, I just received my first copy of your most interesting E-Publication. CONGRATULATIONS on a very fine and most interesting newsletter. Although I am not exactly an avid Liberty Seated collector, I do enjoy reading and learning about some of the most beautiful (in my opinion) coins ever struck by the US Mint. The E-Gobrecht piece adds to my reading interest. I hope that you can keep up this fine publication for the future. I also enjoyed yours and Mr. Wiley's excellent articles in the November Gobrecht Journal on the Seated Liberty Half Dollars. I never realized that there are so many "different" things to look for in just one year's production of minted coins. Such articles make coin collecting a long-term worthwhile avocation. Thanks again for sending me the E-Gobrecht letter and please keep me on the E-mailing list. If and when it becomes necessary, I will be glad to become a contributing member to help defray costs.
From Mike Locke: Is LSCC interested in an
article on the (potential) ancient origins of the seated
From Alan Zischke: Thank you, Bill, your newsletter just keeps getting better. I have two 1857-S' to attribute. Any word on Volume 5?
From Marv Galante: To my knowledge, the 1859s .25 is unknown in Uncirculated condition. How many other Seated coins are unknown in Uncirculated? Shouldn't this make the extant EF-AU coins more valuable than the various published prices?
From Ron Feuer: Just a note that might be listed in the next Gobrecht Journal, (# 98), is my first cherried 1873 Double Die Dime early this year, from dealer stock. After looking through approximately 1,000+ examples of 1873 with arrows dimes at various shows over the past five years or so (to NO avail), that I have actively been looking for this variety, I finally hit paydirt in 2006. Personally, I have paid rather stout prices for three previous examples of this coin in various grades during the years that I have been eyeballing for an undiscovered specimen, and per Brian Greer's advice, it remains an R-6 coin. I certainly believe in his rarity factor of the variety being a "6". Greer has mentioned to me that over the years, he has cherried five examples. I can attest to the fact that diligence does pay off, but I was rather exhausted in my search for one of these rarities, and had more or less put my quest for it on the back burner. When I spotted this example, I was really looking for tough mint marked dimes among some dealer stock, I was really surprised and amazed of the coin being in among common material and, of course, it is not being marked as to what it was. Yet I managed to keep my composure (although my heart did skip the proverbial beat!), enough to secure the coin for the "right" price upon my discovery of the piece. I am going to submit the coin for grading by one of the grading services soon, and think that it will easily grade VF25 or better by even the foremost service. It is a completely nice and original piece.
From John Dannreuther: I would like to inform members that my article about common Proof reverse dies from the 1840s (1/2 cents through eagles, including all the Liberty Seated coinage) is in the current issue of the new ANA magazine (ANA Quarterly). Not too many numismatists are aware of this new publication, but this is the third issue and QDB, Roger Burdette, and others have contributed articles to it. This article details the commonality of Proof-only reverse dies for ALL Proof issues of the 1840s.
From Keith Scott: The 39th annual
Advertisements for the Sale of Liberty Seated Coinage
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Quarter census mailed out - Early 2007.
100th Issue of The Gobrecht Journal - November 2007.
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